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The Tefilah Podcast
The Tefilah Podcast
Tehilim 93: Hashem Moloch REDUX (Part 1)
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Length: 1 hour 1 minute
Synopsis: This evening (6/10/26), in our Wednesday night Tehilim shiur, we began the final perek in our "Kabbalas Shabbos" series: the short and thematically-difficult-to-pin-down Psalm 93! Translation didn't take long, so we were able to pitch several theories. I did my best to share my own, but knew going in that more work was necessarily. As Hashem's will would have it, this did NOT end up being our last shiur of the year. We'll give it another go next week (בג"ה).
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מקורות:
תהלים צג
Artscroll
Neima Novetsky
Robert Alter
מצודת דוד
אבן עזרא - פירוש שני
רש"י
רד"ק - תהלים צב
אדון עולם
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The Torah content for this month has been sponsored by Meir Areman, l'zeicher nishmas Zelda bas Ziesel, his grandmother, whose yahrzeit is on the 21st of Sivan.
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All right. So we are on the last parak of the Kabla Shabbos, quote unquote, uh Kabla Shabbos Prakim, um, or or the fourth parak of the Moshabu uh Prahim, right? Um, according to the Radak and others that he wrote uh from 190 through 100. Yeah. Um so originally I said that we would only do this in one child because I thought this was gonna be the last uh talent fear of the year um for me, but uh because I'm not going on the trip I was going, we we do have the option of doing next week. Uh I I don't want to rush this, so that that's the thing. So like like I won't feel pressure to rush this. Now I want to say also I gave a shear on this on I think in June of 2021, and we only did one part, or we we we finished it, but we didn't really feel like we got it. I could have sworn that I did this sometime in the last three years, also. And I think I did the MOVIM on it, but I can't find it in the recordings. So either I didn't do it or I recorded it and didn't label it right. Um, but uh yeah, okay. So we we uh if because it was sounding so familiar, even translating was sounding familiar. All right, this is speaking of translating, this is difficult to translate, okay, uh, even though it's short. So let's let's go for it here. Um okay, Adoshem. Uh first of all, just to parse it is difficult. Um, even and even if you parse it correctly, it just does not, it feels like something is off, okay? Adoshem, uh, Adonoi Malach geost lavish la veish adonoi os ki sa zar afti kontevel balti mod. Extremely long choppy puzzak. So are we translating this? Yeah, okay. So this is the interesting thing also, which is that technically it's in the past tense. Nimanovetsky is gonna say that it's in the present tense, and I think present tense uh fits better here. So I'm gonna go with present tense, not present tense. Okay. Uh so um uh we'll when we read her translation, we'll see her know her explanation for why. Um for for us, we'll just invoke our you can play fast and loose with tenses and tell them, which is true. Um, but but she has actual reasoning behind it. Okay, so geuslavesh. What's your go-to for gaus? Yeah, uh magic. Okay, so ordinarily it's haughtiness, but we don't want to say Hashem, uh we don't want to have a negative connotation, right? Yeah, what does gaun or gay uh literally mean? Yeah, like highness, right? Right. Um, so uh clothed in mind, yeah. He is uh is clothed in, yeah, clothed is fine. Uh clothed in what was that?
unknownRobed.
SPEAKER_01Robed? Uh that's a king. Yeah, but lavesh is is uh is like garbed or clothed, right? Like a robe is a specific uh specific type of garment. Yeah, in uh greatness, I think it's probably the most neutral and and like positive. Okay. Lavesh Adoshem. No, so this is the part that is like very difficult to parse. Lavesh Adoshem Oshis Azar. That does not look like it should be one phrase, but in the Tamim it is, but but all of the translations break it up in funny into funny ways because they're bothered by it. So Hashem is clothed and then oz his azar.
SPEAKER_08Girded, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He girds yeah, girds himself in strength. Um hold on, I gotta fix this. Okay. Um tikontevil Baltimot.
SPEAKER_03Even the even the uh land, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the uh the uh yeah, so what was it? Inhabited, inhabited. Yeah, so our school loves translating as the inhabited land. Yeah, uh the inhabited land, we'll do that just because we don't really notice inhabited inhabited land. Um yeah, our school established uh uh that it not falter. Yeah, yeah, you can cheat if you want. All right, uhun kis acha me'az me olam atta. Yeah, firm. This is Nakhon firm, right? Not like Israelis say nahun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Etern your throne.
SPEAKER_01From before before is probably a good way to say it, yeah. Me'olam atta.
unknownEternal are you?
SPEAKER_03From eternity, are you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, from eternity uh are you. I saw something which I don't know if this is in the footnotes. I don't know where I saw this, but I saw a term used about Hashem. Um it must be in one of the footnotes that I have on the back, but uh translating um, or you not translating, using the phrase pre-eternal. Hashem is pre-eternal because eternal always runs the risk of conveying that you're in time, you know. Like whenever I'm talking about Hashem's eternality, I obviously outside of time, but but like pre-eternal is like prior to the framework of time. But I I don't like that as a normal translation, but me olam is uh pre-eternal. I was toying with that idea, but you're also still yeah, but you're doing pre-to eternity itself, which is like uh, you know, yeah, I don't know. Right, this is trade-offs anytime you talk about a shame in positive terms, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I'm now reminded of your fetish into investigating beforehand of two weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, right.
SPEAKER_05No, because of like the mayo is not.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah, right, right. It's it's it's pointing in that direction. Nasu naharos arashem, nasu naharos kolam, yisu naharos dochyam.
SPEAKER_04Um lift out lift up streams.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the uh I'm gonna go ahead and say rivers, and the only reason I'm saying rivers is because they have waves, which is also weird for rivers, but streams definitely don't have uh waves, right? So the rivers, yeah, right, rapids. The rivers, uh I think I don't know, are uh no, they raise up, I think. Yeah, raise up. Okay, and then it like interrupts itself and says, uh Hashem, yeah, oh Hashem. Um yeah, let's do that. The rivers, uh now we see what they raise. Nasu naharos kolam. Raise their voice. Yeah. Yesu.
SPEAKER_05The rivers raised off.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I think I feel like you have to say oh hashem, right? Yeah, oh shem. The rivers raise their voice. Yisu naharos dachyam. I don't know the difference between Nasu and Yisu. Uh how how to translate that here. Yeah, I guess, but they will. Yeah. Okay, so now Dachiam is one that all translators that I saw translated differently. Okay. Uh they're uh crush. Yeah, so I I would have gone to that direction. They're uh they're because uh dacha is to crush, right? So they're they're crushing, right? I guess. Okay, so we'll leave it at that for now. Um uh we'll we'll see what the translators say later. Okay, Mikolos Maimrabim, Adirim Mishbrayam, Adir Bamarum Adonai.
SPEAKER_03Um can we refer to like how like rivers have rabbins when you think they'll raise their rap they'll raise their rabbinism?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that could be. Yeah. They're there. So you could say they're crushing waves, maybe. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um sounds and voices.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I also want to translate as from from the sounds of the many waters. All the translators that I have on the back, which we'll see in a little while, say more than, but from I think makes more sense, but whatever. I have my reasons. Uh, from the sounds of the many waters. Um a dirim mishbere yam.
SPEAKER_03Um more yeah, I think more is it there, there more idea than the.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I was wrong. Sorry, hold on a second. I was wrong when I said that the oh no, I was not wrong. Yeah, this is Mishbreyam, but but uh the dachyam might also be um referring to waves. That's why, yeah. Sorry, what were you saying, Azia?
SPEAKER_03Um so like more exalted than the waves of the sea.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so m uh what what's adirin?
SPEAKER_03Mighty ones.
SPEAKER_01Mighty, yeah, right. So the the the the breakers uh of the sea are mighty.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh Adir Bamaroma Hashem.
SPEAKER_08Mighty in of the above.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm just saying mighty on high. Okay, on high, are you are you Hashem? Yeah. All right, and then at the end, Edo Sacha Neam Numaod, Levescha. Oh, let me look at the way it's broken up here. Um Edosecha Neam Numod Levescha Na'ava Kodesh Adashem La Orachimim.
SPEAKER_03Your testimony is extremely trustworthy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, your testimonies, testimonies, plural, are exceedingly trustworthy. Levescha Nava Kodesh.
SPEAKER_08Your house is a holy abode.
SPEAKER_01So this is another one where Nava is a mach locus here. Either Nava is abode, uh no. Or Nava like uh um like Lushan of uh Lon Nava Luxil Kavod. Uh no. Yeah, it's like Nava, but fitting, yeah, exactly, right? Okay, so um but it's also weird Livesra Nava Kodesh. So I'd be tempted to say holiness uh is befitting your uh your house, right? Is is befitting or for your house. Okay, and then Hashem L orachimim. Yeah, for length of days. Okay. What a while we're there.
SPEAKER_03Regarding both like regarding like the bash is modifying the sepa or or or the mum od regarding your base.
SPEAKER_01Uh because uh levescha nabakoders, because the subject is levescha and navakoders is the predicate, I think.
SPEAKER_06Sorry, what's yeah, all right.
SPEAKER_01So we'll we'll see what the we'll see what the the uh English says here. Okay, uh let's go down. Okay, so art scroll says uh I'll make this bigger because I can. Uh okay, hold on, don't have to worry about the formatting. Okay, uh art scroll. Hashem has reigned. So he the article goes with past tense, he has donned grandeur. So if you those of you who wanted a fancier word than clothed, uh donned. Uh Hashem has donned strength and girded himself. They sneak in and okay. So again, everyone struggles with that clause there. Um, even the world of men, world of men, that's how they say the uh tevil is firm, it shall not falter. Your throne is established from of old. Eternal are you? Like rivers, they raised, O Hashem, like rivers they raise their voice, like rivers they shall raise their destructiveness. They go Dahem is destructiveness, probably from crushing, also. Okay, um, but it it's uh it is a very harsh word here.
SPEAKER_03Oh, and inserting the end of the like.
SPEAKER_01Uh and where? Inserting like. Oh, inserting like, yeah, yeah, right. But they're they're they're overt but that they're inserting because it's in brackets, but they they snuck the end in there. Um, okay. More than the roars of many waters, mightier than the waves of the sea, you are mighty on high shem. So I like how they make that into a sentence, right? It's like a one continuous thing. You're you're you know, Hashem is mighty on high, more so than the waves of the sea and the the roars of the many waters. Your testimonies about your house, the sacred dwelling, are exceedingly trustworthy. So they they lump that into one. So uh Edusacha N'emnu Levescha Navakodesh. So the reason why I went the way I went is because um I just broke it up the way that the Edusacha Nemnum Od, that's an Asnahta, which I don't know how to lay and tell him, but like I assume Asnaqta is a stopping thing. Levesika Navakodesh, or that's not a snakh, that's a what do you call it? Ruviya, yeah. Um Leveska Navakodesh and then Hashem, Lower Khamim. So I was trying to parse it with the Tamim, but whatever. Um, okay, anyway. Um, your testimonies about your house, the sacred dwelling are exceedingly trustworthy. So they they go with dwelling, right? For Nava. Uh oh Hashem, may it be for lengthy days. So they they um do a uh uh make it into a beseeching thing, which by the way, I was looking at Kafak's translation of the Judeo-Arabic here. It says, he says, Uveska Naveh Hakodesh or Hakadosh Hashem, Yihi Ezel uh Hasman, and then he says, So he translates Hashem differently. Allah him she he nemersihashelah. So it's it's a beseeching way to address Hashem. So he seems to learn the last parts of Bakasha, also. Okay, so that's Art School. Arts the least favorite of mine of these translations. Okay, here. All right, Nimanoveski. Hashem.
SPEAKER_04Why would you not read that Bakasha? The last part.
SPEAKER_01Uh it's saying Hashem. Oh, you'll see, you'll see. Okay, Hashem reigns. Um, so she says here, despite the past tense formulation of the verb, the word, let me make this bigger also. Despite the past tense formulation of the verb, uh the word malach here appears to connote a continuous action, describing a condition that is long lasting. Okay, so uh if you just I guess if you say I mean I it'd be weird if it said molech. Uh and then melech is not really a verb. That's you know, we were just saying Hashem Melech Hashem Malach Hashem Ed, but you know, what no, we don't really have that as a except as a deity. Yeah, um, according to many, the psalm refers to messianic times. Okay, fine. Uh, in which case the opening should either be read from the prescript perspective of one standing in the future or one uh or translated as a shemurain. Now, I've never noticed this before. She has a tenses in Tanakh um thing. That work? No. Uh, which we should look at this at some point because we're always talking about how to do the tenses. So I I I gotta I gotta read this. Okay, but I'm not gonna read it now. All right. Uh he is clothed in triumph. All right, so that's an interesting thing. One also, so um, Alter's gonna comment on that. Hashem is clothed in might, he is girded.
SPEAKER_03I think they're kind of moving into like a using verbs to connotate like the kingly or yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's uh correct uh connotation, I think. Indeed, the world is established, uh, it cannot be shaken. Your throne is established from long ago, you are from eternity. The rivers raised, Hashem, the rivers raise their voices. I I think I I there's probably some fancy poetic word for this, but I think it's interesting how if you just say the rivers raised, you picture the rivers going up, and then you get interrupted with Hashem, and then the rivers raise their voices. So I feel like that's like an intentional poetic thing, you know.
SPEAKER_05I don't know what it means, but didn't we do that with the um heath clothed uh doubling?
SPEAKER_01Uh that's different because that's just further elucidation. This is like a it's not misleading, but like you picture the rivers raising themselves, and then you find no, they're raising their voices. But Hashem is clothed and then tells you what he's clothed in. There's no there's no like bait and switch, you know? All right. Uh the rivers will raise their crashing waves. So she goes with crashing waves of and she says for five, dahem. See the commentary attributes to Rosh Bomb and Ezra state that the word is synonymous with Mishbrayam, breakers. The noun appears only here, but the verb dachha means to crush or to break. Yeah. Um, okay, fine. All right, then she goes on and says, more than the thunder of many waters. So she takes kolos as not uh voices or sounds, but like cold, cold ramium, you know, uh kolosu brakim, uh thunder. More than the thunder of many waters, more mighty than the breakers of the sea is Hashem mighty on high. So that's like the article, which is fine. Uh, your testimonies are very trustworthy. Hashem is be holiness is befitting your house. So she goes with befitting Hashem for eternity. Okay, so you were asking what does the length of days mean? So she says, for eternity, more literally for length of days, but the term can also mean forever. See Echa 520. Um Lama Lenatzah Tish Kano Tishka uh Lama Lenatzov Lama Lanatzak Tishkano Ta'azvani Lorchamim. Tazva'uchamim is not for long days, but privately like forever. Um and see Telem 26, where it parallels Koyamechayai, all the days of my life. Uh, isn't that Telem 23? Or maybe 26 also. Yeah. Oh, yeah, he says it's in or whatever. All right, fine. Altar. The Lord reigns in triumph. Now here's a nice little list here. Um, the Hebrew Gus covers a range from splendor, grandeur, and greatness to the image of surging high, as it is used in the Song of the Sea, playing against the sense of the term tide, as evidently used in this poem as well. Okay, fine. So I I don't quite get that, but um, clothed clothed is the Lord, in strength he is guarded. Um, yes, the world stands firm, not to be shaken. Your throne stands firm from of old, from forever you are. The streams lifted up, oh Lord. The streams lift. See, that's that's what you really see. The streams lifted up, oh Lord. You think they're just they are lifting up, but then they're lifting up their voice, the streams lift up their roaring. So he he says Docum is roaring uh as a uh uh oral term, not a uh uh what they're doing. Uh, more than the sound of many waters, the seas, majestic records, majestic on high is the Lord. Yeah, you like majestic, yeah. Yeah, that's the weird thing about the word adir, is that adir is both majestic and strong. Um, I don't know if we have a good word in English that that um that has those both those connotations. Um okay, your statutes are very faithful. Holiness suits your house. Is that a sneaky in another clothing pun? The Lord is for all time, yeah. All time greatest.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he makes the floods thing a lot closer to the more of the water raising.
SPEAKER_01Uh the lord. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, right. Um, I'm gonna just steal Imanovetsky's translation of the more than the thunder of many waters, more mighty than the breakers of the sea, especially mighty on high. I like that better than ours.
SPEAKER_03Uh, what is a breaker?
SPEAKER_01Breaker is uh wave, yeah, cracking wave. Uh actually, I'm okay. Hold on a second. From or more than yeah, yeah, okay. I I'm sticking with from. Okay, uh fine. Okay, so um what I mean what what are your observations about the parak? I mean, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um like the theme of firm ping ping firmlet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's also a theme of like noise and crashing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like what would those two things? They actually seem to be seen like opposed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which seem opposed.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's fine. Yeah. Other observations here. I'm just fishing for if anyone has the same observation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06There's I don't know what demus is, but there's like clothing uh thrown, and then it goes between the like major backdoors.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's the uh so I mean it it does. Oh, I don't want to just take the ticket pivot here. I mean, to me, the the problem with this paragraph is it's very short, but so many themes, disparate themes, like, and then we're talking about Mikdash and then Eidos at the end. And and like it's also why the hyper focus on waters.
SPEAKER_03It's jumping around.
SPEAKER_01It is very jumping around.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so that's like just like the yum.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03Specifically the sea.
SPEAKER_01Also, yeah, well, the well, the yum is the sea. Yeah, uh, yeah, but the naharos is the weird one, right? Like rivers, like what? Yeah, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_07Uh I mean, I was just mentioning that hey, yeah, like wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. He is just like uh non non-sequitur, yeah.
SPEAKER_06It seems like almost like it's trying to touch every scene to the yeah, it doesn't call for any action upon someone to do it.
SPEAKER_01Right. That's also true, right? That that's a good point, right?
SPEAKER_03I think it might actually be the only one in this the entire fourth book that might uh really that doesn't call it an interaction?
SPEAKER_01Okay, uh that would be interesting. Yeah, it's it's the the the rhythm is also just weird, you know? Yeah. Okay, uh you had a pivot point? Yeah, yeah. Three, meaning three and three and three and on. Yeah. Yeah. So oops.
SPEAKER_03One and two are the there you go. One and two are like the firmly talking about the firmness of what channel is established, yeah, and it's frame. But then three and on are talking about um like it's a transition to uh the crafting and the water through building different those back to the file, I guess. I don't have I'm not sure if okay.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I mean I hear that. That goes back. Yeah, okay, fine.
SPEAKER_03So it's the first thing, it's like something I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Okay, um, so first two are the stability. Is that like yeah, right, stability and firmness, and then um three and four equals like water crashing and moving, and then five is something else.
SPEAKER_03Five is about faithfulness with similar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, closer to one and two because of faithfulness. Yeah. Okay, I hear that. Any other pivot point theories? I actually, you know, it's funny, when I was preparing this with Ken today, we just forgot to even ask about the pivot point. We were so confused by the entire thing. Yeah, it's very short. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06of three or four.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, five is difficult.
SPEAKER_06But um I I do think there is some commonology with one or two in the sense that like one and two is talking about like you know firmness and uh established and I think what is this trustworthy. I think I think that also fits into the theme of right establish and also established and also what is your house. Right.
SPEAKER_01House your house and also length of days yeah I I actually do want to say that this is uh the same theme right uh stability firmness yeah um uh plus house plus uh forever right I'm gonna say forever I don't want length of days forever yeah all right let's just do questions and uh and then and like dig into the meat of this here yeah what are the mushrooms I mean clothed yeah what is the mushroom of Hashem being clothed yeah gird and girded in strength it's like you with a fellow okay yeah so I actually have a diagram here uh gird loins so yeah so this is how to gird your loins uh so you uh step one the tunic won't allow you to do heavy labor or fight in battle and assessing the girding one's loins first hoist the tunic up so that all the fabric is above your knees this will give you mobility gather all the extra material in front of you so that the back of the tunic is snug against your backside once the excess fabric is gathered in the front pull it underneath and between your legs to the rear this feels much like a diaper gather the material uh in each hand bring it um back around the front finally uh tie your two handfuls of material together and you're all set for both battle and some hard labor go forth be ye men and gird up your loins uh from the art of manliness yeah yeah so so i i i think that this is not just a what is the muscle here but i mean do you view when you put those two together what are what are your thoughts here the public two the clothing greatness and and then girding himself in strength like okay right so here's the thing though right so like um it seems to be to to evoke the imagery of a king going out to war right okay yeah sorry it's girding specifically like used for yeah yeah yeah I mean they said for work also but I I feel like uh um it's usually for for for war right um yeah uh at least in in in my exposure in Tanakh yeah um right so a king going out to war so uh uh I think that's a little funny because what is if we're talking about a Shem in that way what's missing from the Perak? Yeah and not only is the enemy missing and this could be its own question but like yeah cause of the war that's also true right um so hold on second uh it seems that both imagery of the king went to war but actually let me let's make this a separate question here okay if we say that this is evoking the imagery oh sorry evoking uh the imagery of the king going out to war where where are the enemies right sorry enemies um and I was gonna say like the the uh the scene feels very empty here right it's like just water you know it's not even other creations I mean you've got the the Tavel right but like it's just not a like for example you know what you know what's really uh warlike the next parakamos kelnikamos hofia hina se tofitharz hashev gumul al gayim ad masse rushaim yalosu right that's like a shem fighting the Rashim this is just like what why are why is Hashem going to war as king when it's not uh you know and it's just to fill uh as I think we know this but fills in on the facts I mean when you first hear a king going to war you're like the kings don't go to war. Well back then they did you know like that was uh the that was a thing yeah um also what if well so what if the uh what does it mean that the land is firmly established um that it's not alter and what's the off like what does it mean even yeah what does it mean that the land is established so that it won't falter and what is the off yeah general question uh is there anything being compared what is the tems uh idea uh what what is what is the them's uh elevation uh what is that compared to being that the water yeah right okay so let's first ask what what's up with the the the the waters here right uh like you know why naharos specifically uh specific specifically yeah that's about right okay uh what are they doing um why waves um and then uh what is the comparison between Hashem being Adir uh and the waters being Adirian yeah and then we'll we'll ask the question we were kind of uh implicitly asking before is like what are Eidos doing here what are they right like I assume like this is usually Eidos is the mitzvos that are testifying to historical events like like Pesoch Mata Maror Sukha Shabis right um and then uh what is Mikdash doing here yeah Mosha um I can understand like uh the mightiness of I guess the Pasak mighty waters and then the mightiness of driving the Paris waters tsunami's head would be uh very destructive but in terms of uh I I assume we'd be part of uh Shang Bing Maro as it compared to the height of the waters of Isu. Yeah I mean of all things in nature like waters don't get that high yeah right yeah okay so it's yeah what what's up with the um the imagery of Hashem being Bamarom especially in comparison to water which is not Bamarom yeah yeah Ken Kept was saying how to get up there yeah what does it mean Hashem La Urich Yamin look like yeah what is the orich yamin is eternal so if doing here is it describing Hashem as eternal or besieging besieging him for something yeah yeah I don't know what's a fair question to ask but uh like what's supposed to be yeah so we we again think even if people shouldn't have they talk about God being Alion and um I mean not about pushing enemies but yeah at least on the surface of like it sounds fun okay yeah yeah and I I think the the question that Ken and I struggled with the most is what's the purpose of this or what's the point of this yeah. Okay. Uh I think those are the main elements at least I think we can work on this now. Yeah. Yeah we're ready for ideas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah so I think like the the two themes are really interesting. Yeah and I think like like way of thinking about it is like if some established um reality and in that reality a world um and you built it a certain way um do you see in that world like certain forces like shape it internally. So rivers and crashing waves oh that's good to shape the river. I don't think it's like I think they always tell that like a river is card valleys and you know features and rivers change you know so like um I guess I was thinking like set the world down to be a certain way not to never change but to have certain logs um and those are the testimonies that are they they never fail. Right. But like his power over that world is greater than the power of the okay that's good. That's good. Those aren't power over they don't they're not power over anything. Right. They're just within the system that has shared that Shane is like he is like so to speak the river over everything. Yeah he crashes against everything.
SPEAKER_01But McShen's power is over that's really good idea. That's a good standalone idea here. Yeah right I I like that uh I like that as a as an approach. Yeah now what's McDash doing yeah um now I'll I'll give you an ow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean the question I think though is like what means be fitting for like that's strange to see like it is conceived. Right. But I guess that's the place where we have the option to either like act towards it in the way that it like we so we can shape that to be what it's supposed to be like we can treat it with Kenusha so hold on are you having the same idea that I am okay uh about what?
SPEAKER_08About yeah basic Namon Ham.
SPEAKER_01Okay yeah that's that's I wasn't thinking of that reference but that that could work. I was thinking okay Kedem uh that abode I don't know how but abode is used to refer to Hashem's eternity um and most thing behold basing Neman was basically called as the universe right um but either way I think it would be beneficial to your idea if we move away from Mikdash and say that this is describing Hashem's position so to speak vis-a-vis the universe whether it's that he's eternal and both these are referring to the eternality or that he is Kadosh vis-a-vis the world the separate from the world um I would kind of not move away from Mikdash a little bit like that you should firmly like by attribute we firmly established Mikdash the way it shouldn't it should be firmly stylish like the rest of the world but it's subject to us. Okay. What is doing here? So Isaiah's answer is we so you're saying we are the water in this case we can be the water yeah and we're trying to make the mydosh into a place probably not corrupt it instead make it all right yeah it's a little drushy for me we're we're trying to shape the mikdash uh and keep on doing that hold on and and make it kadosh yeah I don't like it at all um okay um my answer is is that um it's not mikdash uh it's the um it's it's either okay either uh basica is the universe uh like the whole base namanhu um uh and this is describing Hashem as kadosh uh vis-a-vis that universe or Nava Nava is being used in the sense of abode which is a reference to Hashem's um eternity yeah Seth um I have a similar idea but I want to take it slightly different here hold on just one second I forgot to adjust the volume and do you hear me okay sorry hold on just want to make sure that you're on maximum volume here uh oh yeah it was low okay yeah go ahead all right I I want to go with a similar idea but slightly different okay it is is that God is all his strength and all his power he creates a firm world but forces of world that are of chaos water is often chaos and turmoil and sometimes those forces are they'll come crashing down on us crush us and they seem overpowering if you're on a ship and you're being tossed by the waves against the rocks you feel like that is real force in a world that's almost godlike in a way and there's mythology about that too um but really this is that God is that God is greater than that which you think is powerful force to the point that his testimonies are just as firm as the world that he he set up in the place.
SPEAKER_03Okay that's good also yeah all right uh yeah I that that that's a good uh good approach to the water theme contrasting with the yeah Moja yeah so I'm gonna get a uh maybe a little bit smaller step by different approach and I'm gonna try to read it in it in the previous film okay good so the so the previous film um that's what I remember it was a call to I was specifically regarding the um the board that they failed to uh actually look at faith and and uh and uh recognize uh God's involvement um that was what I thought like said yeah uh who failed to to recognize God's creation yeah god's universe um and so as it were between after that's a dilemma they went out and looked at the world and now that's everything the concerns first of all and the first concern is in the first and second possible that's that well a shem because they still recognize the Shem. You're saying they still don't recognize Hashem I mean it's for they because they recognize a Shem okay yeah um but they say that if if he he's a guy if he's this uh he's both a mind he's a very powerful guy how is something so uh powerful not he got it but it's powerful going to create going to create something there going to create something there doesn't have uh create something stable it's not a regular no it's like the big bang is a huge bang as it's called right but like how does that result in like something stable that's like the odd like power is like bursting forth like you know like is that the gist of what you're uh yeah yeah um I can't really just say it's just the first I can't read the second possible but then it then then third classbook it's but we actually do see parts of the world that are in the state of like the river especially carrying through a silk here on the sea and you believe that there is there's like you can do about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and you would say well you can you create an order of look at this how I'm stuck out of a situation I can bring that now yeah and that's still a and that's the last um and that's the fourth and fifth public are coming to uh coming to a defending that not only is are are you just are you just looking at things superficially and that Ghana is still above waters and there's still a Sukma in order of that um and I guess the way like the I guess the only way to say is that like have to have more faith and and what is uh and how do you gain that Muda and correct ideas that there is full order in the world and that's by learning the Torah which is why is it focused on the the simply uh being uh okay good uh and I get to say micdash also and Micdash as a as a Malcolm Torah okay um if it's okay with everyone I'm gonna I I don't want to lose the idea that Ken and I uh developed this evening so I want to just like get it out on the table here. All right so um so the first thing so we we we reached this in stages here and we did not fully develop it. Um so I'm just gonna guide you through the stages instead of just telling you the idea. So first stage I recognized is when I was thinking about this thing about Hashem uh reigning okay first first of all what's the muscle of clothing I don't think I've talked about that yet isn't that universe yeah like clothing is how you identify someone right oh that's that person yeah absolutely okay good right so so the the the universe and the chachma of the universe of the Briya is God's clothing in that it points to his greatness um but it's interesting also that um and I think this is a module that is used elsewhere I didn't invent this is that clothing has an interesting property of revealing you by concealing you like like God is completely clothed. We don't see God at all we just see his guard so to speak which is the the creation because we can only know God through the uh the the the creation what's right science there I can get it yeah no but we can only we can only know God through the um through the Briya like in the last parath okay um so so he's he's clothed in that and again it points to him being um great okay fine but then the weird thing again we notice here is there's this is just depicting like an empty universe right like just water and then I had the aha moment which I think someone said when we did 29 but what uh um mismarl David I think that's 29 right uh because that also waters but um what when in creation is this does this sound like it's describing which one uh did this one describe the two so I think the candidate here is day one or day two day one okay or even day three okay I was thinking so I was posting that as well but it doesn't mention like well check this out Bridges Brahlookim esas mindsarats the arats hesa tovavo the earth was void and empty right the kosher open the rua looking marachavas opne mind and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters you know so you could say that it was referring to that and that's by the way that's before creation the first creation of the of light then you've got the light then you've got the firmament separating the uppers and the lower upper and lower waters that's day two then day three is the water and the the water and the earth separating. So I think there's a candidate but the point is that this is early early on in creation perhaps even at the earliest point okay so then I was thinking so that's why it's empty and it's only waters water decide primordialness. Whatever this water was that sorry that God was the uh the the spirit of God was hovering over like the the again I don't know what this actually means but when you read Brachius you're supposed to think that before God creates anything there's the spirit of God and there's waters right whatever that is you know so but whatever undeniably the first three uh days of creation have to do with God and water and nothing and and land and nothing else right so I I think that that's the association that you're supposed to have okay so that's my the the first so the first step is the clothing which is the universe proclaims God's um uh or this idea the yeah the universe uh it points to God's uh glory then the second one is the creation then I also kind of got adon olam vibes okay adon olam ashermal the term koyatsir nibrah that the lord of the universe who reigned as king before any formation was created again that's before the the world was populated so to speak okay by like creations okay so that that was that was as far as Ken and I got um uh just on our own okay we did not develop uh independent um uh reading of the parac yeah you have an idea for why it's also R as an extension of the mola I think we did but I forgot what the idea was um but this will this this will the we'll this will develop now with the Matsudos okay so so then we went to the Matsous W just to get our orientation here. Yeah can I take care of where this goes sure is is it that the waters somehow represent uh chaos and they're being used as imagery to represent no I mean that that I I I don't have any problem with you guys having said that but uh Msus David connects it to Ms Roshirliam Shabbos okay not overtly but so Ms. Roshelium Shabbos had two themes right just let's just review Ms. Roshir Liam Shabbos here okay um let's I'll I'll just pull it up um 92 we're gonna have Claude like came up with your photo notes and see if you oh you have no idea what I started doing with Claude uh this is gonna be the summer this is gonna be the summer of Claude for me. Uh yeah I I already mobilized a uh all my what I'm thinking about this morning post that I've ever written.
SPEAKER_06I thought right you said it was yeah but I've I've I've
SPEAKER_01Had it strip all of them and like put them into uh the right. I don't know what I'm gonna do with it yet. I got a whole thing, okay. Anyway, um, but yeah, all right. So um we said that the so just to recap what we said last week. So there are two halves of this parak, right? There's the first half, which is about the hamim appreciating the briya and seeing how deep Hashem's thoughts are and uh and and and everything like that. And then you've got the second half which deals with the the you know the wicked uh seemingly dominating. And our theory is that if you don't understand the Briya, then you will not understand God's justice in the world. And in order to understand God's justice, you need to understand the Briya. But then we look to the Radak, and the Radak says that there's really two populations there's the Khachamim, and the Khachamim do understand this, right? They are the that's why the uh the appreciation of Khachim is in the singular, that it's each and every Chacham does appreciate this, but the Hammon does not recognize this, the masses don't recognize this. But there will be a day when the Hamon will recognize this, and when is that? That's Imosa Mashiach, and that's what the second half deals with. And they're gonna recognize it in two stages. There's gonna be a uh apocalyptic, you know, Yom Hashem Hagarova Hanorah, where they see the Rashaim get punished, and then that will initiate things, and then they'll gain Hashem with uh they'll gain knowledge of Hashem with the um alhards dea dea ashem Kamaim Liam Bachasim, that the earth will become filled with knowledge of Hashem, and then they'll that'll raise them to the level of the Khachamim. Okay, so so that's that's what we have in mind as we read this Mitsudas. Okay, so Hashem Malach, Bimeha Mashiah Mashiach, Yomar Hine Hashem Malach, Blavesh Gayus, Liz Gaia. So in the time of Mashiach, they'll say, Behold, Hashem uh reigns, he has donned grandeur to be exalted over everyone. Lavesh Hashem owes, Lovash Koh, his azar bow ratal attah hera koho. So it means he's showing his his strength. So that's the the girding, not that he's getting ready for, but that he's showing off his strength. So imagery we got is not a king going to war, but almost like a military parade, where the point of the military parade is you're not actually engaging in war, you're showing the greatness of the king and his military might that he can go to war. Okay. Umtikon as Yakira ko then in the time of Mashiach, everyone will recognize ki that afa olam ata hi uh that you establish the world in a way that it won't fall. It's a weird, weird um punctuation here. Uh me's from then, barasa olam, from the time that you created the world, uh me olam mi term barasa olam atahu. Before you create the world, you were, you you existed. Okay. All right, now this is where it gets different. Oh, so okay, so so far, okay, let me just uh talk out one other point as well. Okay, Hashem, like Adon Alam says, Hashem was king before the entire world, okay. This is a very different kind of kingship than a human kingship, okay, because a human king, uh Hashem's kingship is different in many ways, okay. As Rebu say it's qualitatively differentiated, right? But um, a human king, first of all, has to establish his malhus. Okay, and uh and the thing he is melef over already exists, and his malhus he is finite and his malhus is finite. Like even the king who every king dies, but a king wants to have an uh a lasting dynasty. So far, that hasn't happened yet. No kingship has ever lasted. Okay, so but Hashem was king from the beginning, he created the thing he's melef over, and he has been king from from before moment one, you know, yeah, unchallenged.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's why it's like it's like a relationship, like a king has a king.
SPEAKER_01So that's actually Rebbe's point on on Adonalam, that there is uh there are relative terms like a uh you cannot have a father without a son or or an offspring, right? Uh and if you're a son, then you uh you must have a uh a parent, okay, except for in some religions. Um no, you they have the the uh yeah uh uh father, right? But Rebbe's point is Adonalam Ash Ashermalach, uh Baterim Koyatir Nivra. And Rebbe said Beterim means not chronologically before, but like conceptually, you know, before, like logically prior to. However, you want to translate that, Hashem is king now, and then the akhri kiklosakal, then after everything has ceased to exist, but you gotta talk to Professor Goodwin about the universe ceasing to exist. Um Vado Yimloh Yimloch Nora. So he was king before, he's king now, and he'll be king after the universe. So he's a king without a so he's not king because he has a thing he rules over, and that's when Rebbe said the idea that the Ramam holds that Mahushem refers to Yichudashem, to God's oneness, not kingship, but kingness, right? Um, and so that's that's a whole uh shir from Malchius. Yeah, so that that that's that's the point is that he's king even uh uh without you know this terrain over. Um yeah, I don't want to go into the the whole shir now. I mean it's yeah, I want to try to summarize it uh also without reviewing. Okay, so um where was I? Okay, so yeah, so Hashem's kingship is different. Okay, so hold that in mind. So now things get different. So now it goes and says he raises um uh the sound or the voice over those who fear him to intimidate them. Okay, um dachyam is stifas galayam. Okay, dachim is the crushingness of their waves, mikolos, abal Yosur Mikolos Mayim Vokole, Vyosur Yam, Yachazekadhem Hayosh, Bamaron, Velo Yahalu Laham. So I I don't know where I saw this. I think this is actually referring to the Umusa Olam, to the nations of the world who are defeated at the time of Mashiach. And uh Hashem will be even stronger than them. In other words, the nations of the oh, I got it from one of the other Mufarjim here. So the other um, I think Rashi says that. Uh, the the the waves are the other nations and they're strong. Yeah, he says, so he says they raise their voice in crying, Lash and Saka Vuklanza, crying out and complaining, or not complaining. Aha Hashem. Aha means like woe is me. He named Baumus Hashotfim Kenaharos Nasu Kolom ve Yehemaiun Vat duch imkehem Yisu vyagviu tamit lihisgaos negdaha. So in those you're you're crushing your your your enemies. Okay, so that's gonna happen at the time of Shiach. Okay, and then let's get to the end here because I I I want to uh that's that's the interpretation for like my elsewhere.
SPEAKER_03What if that's the interpretation of Maya?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's the the all the bad guys, yeah. Um except I'm not saying that we can talk about that in terms of like even the do you want to wait until I get to the end to give the khadish, or do you want to demand the khadish from this pasok? In other words, are you expecting there to be the kiddish just from this pasuk? Because I mean I'm in the process of explaining the entire parak, but I'm reading this so we can get to my idea for the entire parak.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay, all right. So I'll say my I'll say my finish, don't worry, I gotta finish. Umsecha. So he says it's Dibri Han al-Hatushua. So these are the words of the Navim that promise about the salvation. Uh Hema Na'manim'o, they're very trustworthy. Vihelvescha noi viofi, and they will and and I don't know what the yihia in singular is for your house, um beauty and you know, and and uh beauty, okay. Kidusha the tasmi l orchyam vlot teh, and it will persist for many days and will not be destroyed uh any any and again. Okay, so we we borrowed from this, all right. The main thing we got was the move you made, which is connecting to the previous parak. Okay, so here's what what I'm gonna try to paint a picture here, okay. The last parak talked about a problem, which is that the ishba'ar loyeda uksil loyavinizos, like you mentioned, right? That the fool doesn't understand the um Maya Shem and he doesn't understand the seeming injustice in in the world, all right. And it talked about the solution to that problem, which is gonna be for the Khachamim in studying Maïsa Breshis, which they mostly do on Shabbos, and then for the Hamon, it's gonna be when Rushiach comes. Okay. This is now then stating what the ultimate purpose is gonna be, or what the ultimate state is gonna be, which is they're gonna recognize Machus Hashem. Now it's interesting, the last parak did not say that. The last parak did not say what they're recognizing, it was just saying the problem. It was die, the last parak was diagnostic. It was saying the the main crux of the last parak was Ishbarra Lo Yada Uxil Loyavinazos, but the ultimate point is a recognition of the Mahus Hashem. In other words, the the point of the last parak was not just that you should that God makes you happy with his uh Pa' Lacha and Masay Yadaka or Anain. The point of studying that is to accept Mahus Hashem. Now, here's the thing: when you recognize Mahus Hushem, what will that recognition be? The recognition will be of Mahus Hashem that always was, and that only now are people recognizing. He was Mahushem from the very beginning, and the entire universe was his was the clothing of the king. And you didn't see that because you weren't studying the Maze Breshis, you know. So the like what Ken says, like, like, what's that pile of clothes walking? Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, what's that pile of cloth? And you say, Oh, it's clothing on a person, and like, oh yeah, there was a person there. It's a weird Ken way to say it. But like, in other words, people even the the Hamun sees the way they see the waves and they see the earth, but they don't make the connection that that is the garb of Hashem in its pointing to his grandeur, you know. And the the I I I I'm kind of proud of myself because I had the same association that the Ibn Ezra has. I was thinking in Tilim Yud uh Yud Aleph, um uh sorry, Yud Tess, Hashmain Mesoprin Kabot Kal, Umasi Yadav Makit Harakia. Uh so the heavens declare uh uh proclaim the glory of Hashem of God, and the work of his hands uh uh the firmament declares. Yom liom ya bia omer, vela lala y chave das um day to day it pours forth speech, and night to night it declares knowledge. In omer of ain divine belinish ma'kalam. There is no speech and there are no words, their voice is never heard. So this is like all of the Briya is shouting out the glory of Hashem, but only the Khachamimar hearing it. But at the time of Mashiach, then everyone will hear the the the again. It's not a uh auto, uh this one's not an audio one. They'll see the the the the levoosh of the melech and the gaius that he his lovish. So if you look in our parak, Ibn Ezra says a similar thing. He says, kind of a daring interpretation, can said it. I was like, that can't be. And then Ibn Ezra says, like, okay, Ibn Ezra agrees with you. He says um that oh first of all, okay. First of all, he's a he has a good thing here. He says, Where is it? Oh yeah, I highlighted it. Uh the kolos lo ishmu. Oh, so yeah, he says, Lo Yishmu Haherishim. So the the sounds cannot be heard by the deaf. Just like the blind don't see the works of Hashem. But he says, Eidosekah, kederah hashimaim sapot kel. Um, so the eidos are the laws of nature, is what Kemel is saying. I didn't think that would be work. And you you said that also. Uh, they're greater Eidos than I think than the Torah's Eidos, because the Torah's Edos are secondary. You know, they are just um uh telling you, by the way, God created the universe. But these Eidos directly point to God, they they they point to God as the creator. Like they don't, they're not like a sign that says, look, God created the universe, they are the evidence of God creating the universe. Um, that's why it's me'od. Uh the Tamki Eidos Ela Hane Manim Hanoraim V Eidosaka Yoser. Yeah. Um, so uh what was I gonna say? Um yeah, so the question, so so just let's just like put these pieces together and then we then we gotta get the point here. Okay. So this parak is describing what happens after the events in Mizbrash Elimashabis. Okay, this is the ultimate state. Mizra Mashabis says there's this problem, which is that people think that the world has no mashgiach uh because the wicked prosper and and the the and no one's getting what they deserve. And the solution is that the khachamim have to the khachamim can see this, but they're the the humanity is not going to recognize it until Yimusa Mashiach. Then when that happens, it's gonna be two stages. There will be an event of justice in which all the people get what they deserve, and the people and everyone will recognize that, and they'll have a Yuras Hashem, but it won't be a full recognition of Yidya until the universe, the world is filled with Yidya Sashem. Then that'll turn to this Ahava, and they'll have a recognition of the king. And then you'll recognize this bracketed reality of it looks like Hashem is becoming Melech now, but no, it was Hashem was always Melech, always was, always was Melech, and um and but only now will all of humanity recognize it, and they'll accept the the the king for that reason. So so the question though is what like what is this supposed to accomplish? What's the parak supposed to accomplish here? Like I like in other words, the the problem I ran into when we I was at the end of Learning with Ken, I see that this is distinct from the previous parrot, but I don't see the previous parrot was telling us how to get there. What is this parak telling us to do? Yeah, or what's the point of it?
SPEAKER_03So I'm following your idea problem. Like maybe the the audience is someone who is like listen, like who hears only the voices of the rivers, like the the I guess the tracking nation, yeah, like that, and realize that like you might have a bit of a word, so like the shaman is no longer everything, but like like in the like I feel like it helps to know that in the end it's gonna everyone.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay, that is good. I thought you were going a different direction, and so I want to state this other direction also, which is that the in in the previous pair we were dealing on the person-to-person level. This is and it looks like the wicked are getting away with stuff. Here, though, it is on the national level, which is that if if you're gonna go with this idea that the Mishbray Yam are the other nations, um, and it looks like a similar thing, but you'll you'll see that come to fruition as well. Yeah. Um yeah, you have no yeah, so that's as far as we got. But it's not complete. We also have a thing with Mikdash, though. What was the thing with Mikdash that we had? Oh, so the Mikdash um is also um was also referenced in the last parrot, right? Uh the Radak said about the Mikdash that the um Sadiqim go to Mikdash, not for Avoda. I mean they did that also, but it's for learning about the Maiza Sham. Right? So um we thought that maybe that has something to do with uh here as well, but I'm not sure. So I I think we yeah.
SPEAKER_07Part of the issue is um things we're gonna turn out, but once you like um go to the MiGdash and learn about the Mays Hashem, then you'll recognize their internality.
SPEAKER_01Right. Okay, that's good also. Yeah, Mikdash, you learn about two things. You learn about the Mayshem, and you also learn about the Navuas about Yumos Mashiach coming true. Yeah. So I I I think let's plan to try to actually get this next week. But I think I think we are circling around. I do think we have two distinct approaches. We have a standalone approach, which is not entirely standalone, but like you know, you're like Isaiah's approach, and uh, and then we have Moshe Levin and I are trying to tie this to the previous pair. Yeah, Isaiah.
SPEAKER_03Um, do you have an explanation of the uh the world that's currently established?
SPEAKER_01Um, I was just learning that that was uh uh setting the stage for talking about the pre-creation phase, which is the first time that the that God's Malchus is um manifest over the world.
SPEAKER_03So you're not learning table as uh inhabited.
SPEAKER_01No, I'm not learning as inhabited. Yeah, in fact, um I want to see what the BDB says about the definition of Tavel. I I know that that's an art scroll thing, but um I forgot if we've seen world. Um, foundations of the world. Yeah, it's weird. I don't even know what the um Yeah, I'm not sure. Okay, so sorry, but I think we are we have two distinct approaches floating around, and uh I think there's hope. Uh and I just want to say methodologically, the reason if I did teach this, I know I taught this once, and it I think twice, but the reason why I didn't get it is I think because I never learned or taught it right after Ms. Burchia Le Mashavis. So I think I I really like the idea that this is connected to that. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_08So one more thing is I don't know what uh that says it that way about Brashi.
SPEAKER_01Right, which is funny because we always say it it comes afterwards and we say it afterwards on yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Weird that it comes after if if if the other one was written explicitly for Shabbos. Yeah, interesting. Okay, so uh hopefully we'll get that next time. All right, uh thanks for coming.